JoomlArt Forums 32,862 posts

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#129902

I put this issue for discussion to every customer of Joomlart

When I came back sometime in mid May 2008, I noticed a slew of new Moderators I never heard before. I do not know how Joomlart screened these new Moderator but there is a behavior that I consider rather question and bordering unethical.

Here is the gist of the issue:
1. Many of have asked many many questions but most of them remained unresolved. In the JA Telline for example, there are 650 threads and 3345 responses; and yet only last I checked only 62 of these were marked solved — less than 10%

2. Many are frustrated because while there are more Moderators, there seem to be even less showing their faces to help solve problems. Menalto, hainn84, tcraw1010, bigrk, mfcphil and just a few others seem to be main ones showing up, more religiously.

3. What is worse, there is a public questions asked, obviously a great number of these are of interests so a public response would be helpful to everyone

Instead of responding in public, a Moderator instead would ask immediately for the poster to send a PM to the Moderator. Then some of these threads are marked Solved, but I do not see any public answer as to what the solution was.

The same question is asked again, and the same behavior happens. A Moderator asked the poster immediately to PM him. I am sure many of you who follows the forum know what I am talking about.

It is one to ask that a URL, providing information to access ta site be private.

If the posted problem is indeed solved, does the customers not have a right to know what the solution was considering how negligent Joomlart is in fulfilling it duty to provide decent manual to customers?

Is this an accepted policy of Joomlart?

If not, why is this behavior condoned by Joomlart?

I hope customers would share their opinion in this matter, and if you feel strongly as I do, to let Joomlart know that this behavior must be stopped.

Cornelio

1 user says Thank You to cgc0202 for this useful post

1. tanisha

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#254831

An example of what I am talking about is represented by what transpired in this thread:

http://www.joomlart.com/forums/topic/its-not-working/

but this is not the only one. I see a pattern. It has been bothering for some time, but when I got a response to my request as posted in the aforementioned thread, I feel there is a need to air this issue.

I provided more explanation, in relation to this specific thread in my last response in the aforementioned thread.

Cornelio

[Menalto Friend MenaltoJoin date: May 2007Posts: 4736Downloads:0Uploads:43 Thanks: 2 Thanked: 531 times in 361 posts]

#254842

This is a big issue that pisses me off here.

In most cases, if someone have a problem a live url, a screenshot, a good description should be enough to solve the problem.
There is oufcourse a couple of things that needs to be checked out in personal, if that happens i post the solution right after(in most cases).

The “answered” button is another thing that is very annoying, the solved button should be enough.

I have noticed that in some posts i cant change the “status” to solved.
<blockquote>If the posted problem is indeed solved, does the customers not have a right to know what the solution was considering how negligent Joomlart is in fulfilling it duty to provide decent manual to customers?</blockquote>
I agree.

One other thing, for the moderators to advice people to post their jobs at joomlancers i would find it more attractive to link to the forum/support rules, or something at Joomlart instead?

[tempusserbia Friend tempusserbiaJoin date: January 2008Posts: 270Downloads:0Uploads:5 Thanks: 29 Thanked: 32 times in 8 posts]

#254856

The answer is very simple: NO
All problem solutions must be public, so all JA members can see it. Sometimes, only a hint from different solution can help to solve some kind of problem. Also, solutions given in PM from Mods, must be implemented in new releases of existing templates, to improve them.

1 user says Thank You to tempusserbia for this useful post

1. tanisha

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#254858

Maybe you good exert your influence to Joomlart Menalto. This really bothers me.

<em>@Menalto 60575 wrote:</em><blockquote>This is a big issue that pisses me off here.

In most cases, if someone have a problem a live url, a screenshot, a good description should be enough to solve the problem.
</blockquote>

I agree with you completely on this, especially because I am not a Moderator, I would not ask someone for very personal and security risk information. There is also the risk liability that if something goes wrong, I would be blamed. But, it is more a privacy issue for me.

<em>@Menalto 60575 wrote:</em><blockquote>
There is oufcourse a couple of things that needs to be checked out in personal, if that happens i post the solution right after(in most cases).
</blockquote>

Indeed! I am discussing this with the Moderator now. That this must be a last recourse. Otherwise, if the solution is not provided in public, the other customers do not benefit from the discussion.

<em>@Menalto 60575 wrote:</em><blockquote>
The “answered” button is another thing that is very annoying, the solved button should be enough.

I have noticed that in some posts i cant change the “status” to solved.

I agree.

One other thing, for the moderators to advice people to post their jobs at joomlancers i would find it more attractive to link to the forum/support rules, or something at Joomlart instead?</blockquote>

For simple stuff, like QuickStart installation, I always try to convince people to do it on their own first before requesting for personal help. It is another story altogether with more complex webdesign requests.

Now, if people still want their “Easy Install” done for them, then it is their money.

Cornelio

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#254859

<em>@tempusserbia 60591 wrote:</em><blockquote>The answer is very simple: NO
All problem solutions must be public, so all JA members can see it. Sometimes, only a hint from different solution can help to solve some kind of problem. Also, solutions given in PM from Mods, must be implemented in new releases of existing templates, to improve them.</blockquote>

I am glad we have the same perspective on this tempusserbia. Sometimes, from the answers going back and forth, I gain some insights that may allow to ask related questions that helped me in a number of situations.

Cornelio

[mfcphil Friend mfcphilJoin date: September 2007Posts: 2866Downloads:3Uploads:218 Thanks: 211 Thanked: 388 times in 133 posts]

#254945

Cornelio

I think JoomlArt should have one very comprehensive User manual for all the basics in Template installation and FAQ’s.
This can then be updated if any changes have been made to any new templates released.

This way the customer can check the manual for all the basic answers, leaving the forum free for any new problems.

What do you think?

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1. cgc0202
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3. tanisha

[kalinski Friend kalinskiJoin date: February 2008Posts: 30Downloads:18Uploads:0 Thanks: 4 Thanked: 5 times in 3 posts]

#254952

I actually have to agree. The documentation for the templates, as well as some assistance from JA Staff for template problems is not what you would expect for a service one have to pay for.

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#254959

<em>@mfcphil 60689 wrote:</em><blockquote>Cornelio

I think JoomlArt should have one very comprehensive User manual for all the basics in Template installation and FAQ’s.
This can then be updated if any changes have been made to any new templates released.

This way the customer can check the manual for all the basic answers, leaving the forum free for any new problems.

What do you think?</blockquote>

That has been what many customers has been clamoring for mfcphil. More than likely, almost all customers would want this, so I agree with you completely.

If you are part of the inner circle, please relay this message and clamor from the customers to the Joomlart staff.

I have been suggesting the same for a long time already. The argument I use also — before I was out of here since early February — when there was a debate about whether to go to one template a month.

I was in favor for one template a month, with the hope that Joomlart would then use the time that was freed to prepare these Manuals. But, when I came back in mid May — nothing has changed. It has even gotten worse.

If you look at the sticky of Hung for example in JA Teline II, either he did not even bother to check, but the QuickStart link for Joomla 1.0x he gave there was not working. I pointed this out in Hung’s own thread. A number of customers mentioned this in the Forum, but nothing has been done — by Hung or the staff — to rectify the error.

These lack of attention to detail on what the Joomlart post says much about the general attitude of Joomlart, and this is not a very nice impression.

This brings me to the question: Aren’t Moderators allowed to “Edit” such things?

As a matter of policy, I do not “Edit” postings of people, if I were a Moderator. So, at least Hung must be alerted about this error.

Anyway, We are mad as hell! We can’t take it anymore… — to borrow and rephrase the mantra from that very old movie — Network. There is a grassroot movement, with me as one of the instigators, to take action ourselves. You may have noticed that in some of my postings:

We will try to do this ourselves and not be under the mercy of Joomlart.

If you want to help, we will welcome people to join us.

Cornelio

1 user says Thank You to cgc0202 for this useful post

1. tanisha

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#254962

<em>@kalinski 60697 wrote:</em><blockquote>I actually have to agree. The documentation for the templates, as well as some assistance from JA Staff for template problems is not what you would expect for a service one have to pay for.</blockquote>

Hi kalinski,

This sentiment is becoming more widespread. I for one had been suggesting that Joomlart do something about this. But, as is evident in my recent postings, we are not waiting for Joomlart to wake up and realize the need for this.

A number of members are warming up to the idea that we must do something on our own. I am one of those supporting the creation of a separate group to address this issue — we need Joomlart templates, but we do not just intend to wait for Joomlart to take its time, we have to start helping each other to solve the problems we raised here.

Cornelio

[mj1256 Friend mj1256Join date: June 2007Posts: 1473Downloads:10Uploads:35 Thanks: 84 Thanked: 225 times in 118 posts]

#254993

this is a great follow up to my thread of two weeks ago
read thread here

there should be a dedicated moderator for each template forum, the newer or more active threads should have at least two.

the members should know who the moderators are for each of those template forums. right now it looks like a “free for all” of any moderator answering any question (or usually not) regardless of forum

each moderator should be responsible for compiling an faq of issues and resolutions to be posted as a sticky at the beginning of each template forum. These should be locked.

Currently, the moderators are compensated with basic memberships. They should have full memberships. The management looks at this as giving something away for free and losing money and having memberships that are not monetized. That value is being projected onto the value of the moderation positions, or…if you give little, you get little, you only get back what you invest in yourself. By giving basic low value compensation for moderatorships, you have given the position of moderator little value and importance to the company and the community.

As you can see, this shows a GROSS lack of understanding of basic business principles and represents a poverty/failure mentality. In business you must give to get. Full memberships would attract a higher level of skilled moderators who will pay more attention and because of the value of the position, they can be held more accountable (remember, you only get what you give and the value of what you give, give little, get little). There is always a return for good customer service. Good moderators would also attract more customers and bring their network of associates to the community. Happy customers will also attract their network of associates to the community.

Good customer service, of which moderation is your front line team, always produces a return on investment (ROI), but… that return cannot always easily be measured in dollar for dollar terms.

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[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#255187

<em>@mj1256 60753 wrote:</em><blockquote>this is a great follow up to my thread of two weeks ago
read thread here

there should be a dedicated moderator for each template forum, the newer or more active threads should have at least two.

the members should know who the moderators are for each of those template forums. right now it looks like a “free for all” of any moderator answering any question (or usually not) regardless of forum

each moderator should be responsible for compiling an faq of issues and resolutions to be posted as a sticky at the beginning of each template forum. These should be locked.

Currently, the moderators are compensated with basic memberships. They should have full memberships. The management looks at this as giving something away for free and losing money and having memberships that are not monetized. That value is being projected onto the value of the moderation positions, or…if you give little, you get little, you only get back what you invest in yourself. By giving basic low value compensation for moderatorships, you have given the position of moderator little value and importance to the company and the community.

As you can see, this shows a GROSS lack of understanding of basic business principles and represents a poverty/failure mentality. In business you must give to get. Full memberships would attract a higher level of skilled moderators who will pay more attention and because of the value of the position, they can be held more accountable (remember, you only get what you give and the value of what you give, give little, get little). There is always a return for good customer service. Good moderators would also attract more customers and bring their network of associates to the community. Happy customers will also attract their network of associates to the community.

Good customer service, of which moderation is your front line team, always produces a return on investment (ROI), but… that return cannot always easily be measured in dollar for dollar terms.</blockquote>

Hi mj1,

I did have your post in mind for quite awhile. I have been thinking of ways to find better business plan for a template company.

Definitely, the current system is not the best option that will help me grow with the template that I want. It is like months and months of waiting — hoping that the template company will come up with a new one that you might like.

Then again, does one really change their chosen template for a new one?

Only if it makes sense — like the original Teline to Teline II for me.

Corneli

[shackbase Friend shackbaseJoin date: May 2007Posts: 158Downloads:0Uploads:0 Thanks: 8 Thanked: 5 times in 1 posts]

#256768

I am sure there are people who change templates on their sites because they can, if you run a professional web site you most likely won’t.

No template will make everyone happy, for instance I seem to be one of the few who cares for kulanite, but as we all have noticed there has been a lack of creativity in most 2008 templates.

Now if you were looking for a teline replacement – YouJoomla has a really nice news/magazine style template called newsline II – check out the joomlaviews.com/joomla-ne…i-20080626109/

Comming back to the issues with JA is not only their templates which you clearly can see and look at before you join, what is harder to see is their utter disregardment to member support, to fix the bugs in their templates and to update their downloads with those fixes; and those things are hard to see until you have parted with your money and notice that what you see is what you get, nothing more.

That is when the ripped off feeling starts to set in…

–Tone

[mj1256 Friend mj1256Join date: June 2007Posts: 1473Downloads:10Uploads:35 Thanks: 84 Thanked: 225 times in 118 posts]

#256820

truth be told, all of the template providers have issues and all of the templates have flaws of some type or another.

[cgc0202 Friend cgc0202Join date: August 2007Posts: 2244Downloads:0Uploads:3 Thanks: 206 Thanked: 262 times in 1 posts]

#256830

Edit: [An unethical conduct!]

Hi Tone,

You stated

<em>@shackbase 62857 wrote:</em><blockquote>
Now if you were looking for a teline replacement – YouJoomla has a really nice news/magazine style template called newsline II – check out the JV announcement (http://www.joomlaviews.com/joomla-news/templates/youjoomla-releases-yj-newsline-ii-20080626109/).
</blockquote>

Note This is the actual demo site YouJoomla news
http://www.demo.youjoomla.com/newslin2_15/

I invite you to look closely at your recommendation, and if you still think that it is a worthy replacement for an of the JA Teline series:

JA Teline II
http://www.joomlart.com/templates_demo.php?template=ja_teline_ii

or even the original Teline
http://www.joomlart.com/templates_demo.php?template=ja_teline_ii

and the customers of Joomlart agree with you, I will delete this response myself. And publish an apology.

Not to offend you but I think, you views about Joomlart is starting to affect how you see things. It is one thing not to like Joomlart and that is your prerogative.You should not attempt to win converts to your views through misinformation.

First of all, you were sincere, what you should have show is this link:

This is the actual demo site YouJoomla news
http://www.demo.youjoomla.com/newslin2_15/

not what was quoted above. The link you provide above refers to a site that suggests a review site that seems related to you, based on the similarity in the icon.

For you to suggest that <blockquote>”Now if you were looking for a teline replacement -YouJoomla magazine is a really nice news/magazine … “</blockquote>

http://www.demo.youjoomla.com/newsline2/index.php

is really insulting to the intelligence of those you recommend a template to, and since you even think that it would be one I would consider, is almost offensive to my aesthetic judgment. I looked at the Joomla 1.5.3 version and it is just as bad.

If this is their second version, I shudder to imagine how bad the first version was like.

I do not speak for other Joomlart customers and they can view the link themselves, but in trying to foist a review of supposedly “…a really nice news/magazine ..” speaks much of the capabilities of the reviewer, and the kind of review magazine Joomla Views is like.

I can tell you now that it would not be a views magazine that I would consider one to be authoritative or one that I can trust for their sense of what is aesthetically simple and elegant. Just from this link, as a sample o fthe reviews., the review magazine has lost me a potential visitor.

Have you ever actually seen or prepared a JA Teline II page?

http://www.joomlart.com/templates_demo.php?template=ja_teline_ii

and what some customers here have done with it?

I would like to see what you have done with the JA Teline II yourself. Sure there are problems, and there are frustrations but JA Teline II users struggle to make it work, because from what is available right now, they found it is best for their purpose. I think like myself, they have looked around. To suggest thjs garbage:

http://www.demo.youjoomla.com/newsline2/index.php

as potential replacement for JA Teline II or even the original JA Teline is almost blasphemy.

As bad as the front page is, did you even look inside?:

The News section for example

Where are the categories?
Where are the articles?
How can they even claim that it is a magazine?
And their customers accepted this?

As boring as some Joomlart templates are, I do not think they ever stooped this low to foist a template this bad:

http://www.demo.youjoomla.com/newsline2/index.php

Since you have been so scathing of Joomlart, I hope based from the quality of the above product you will not take it upon yourself to decry, lambast how bad

http://www.youjoomla.com/

is in insulting the sense of aesthetics of its members.

There is another disturbing trend that I suddenly observed, in light about your other post in regard the behavior of Moderators, which by the way is the focus of this thread.

Are you in any way, connected with Joomla Views?

Because if you are, what you are doing is unethical — because of conflict of interest. First of all, you are using the pages of another commercial company to get free advertisement for a site that you may have commercial interest. Second, you did not disclose to the customers here that you might have a conflict of interest. Even if the recommendation was indeed good, this omission to declare that you may benefit, is unethical. It is even made worse that it is a very very very bad judgment to recommend a garbage.

Note: I do not consider this a personal attack. I feel it is my duty, since you tried to foist this garbage to me that what you have done with the recommendation is not a good thing.

You should apologize to the unnamed Moderator that you maligned. They did the right thing by deleting your link in another post — because you are again committing an unethical practice. If you do not realize this, then I am sorry for you.

Cornelio

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